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Tucker Carlson and Mike Pence clash over Ukraine at campaign event.

DES MOINES, Iowa— Former Vice President Mike Pence strongly advocated for additional military aid to Ukraine despite challenges from Tucker Carlson about religious freedom under the Ukrainian government and pressing domestic problems facing the United States.

“Anybody that says that we can’t be the leader of the free world and solve our problems at home has a pretty small view of the greatest nation on earth,” Mr. Pence said.

“We can do both. And as President United States, we will secure our border; we will support our military; we will revive our economy, and stand by our values. And we will also lead the world for freedom under my administration. I promise you.”

The remarks came after a tense exchange between Mr. Pence and Mr. Carlson on July 14 at the Family Leadership Summit, an event hosted by a conservative parental training organization.

Mr. Carlson served as a guest interviewer, grilling six of the 14 Republican presidential candidates in 15-minute segments.

Also interviewed at the daylong event were Sen. Tim Scott (R-S.C.), former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson, former U.N. Ambassador and former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.


Tucker Carlson speaks during the National Review Institute’s Ideas Summit at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel in Washington on March 29, 2019. (Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

Religious Freedom

Mr. Carlson noted reports of religious persecution in Ukraine and asked if Mr. Pence had raised the issue with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy during a recent visit to the country.

“I raised it with the leader of the Orthodox Church and asked him about concerns about religious liberty,” Mr. Pence said.

“He assured me that the Zelenskyy government of Ukraine was respecting religious liberty, even while recognizing that they were very small elements of the Russian Orthodox Church that were being utilized for the purpose of advancing the Russian cause in Ukraine, and that they were taking steps to hold them to account.”

Mr. Zelenskyy issued a decree in December to introduce legislation prohibiting religious organizations that are “affiliated with centers of influence in the Russian Federation” to operate in Ukraine, according to the U.S. State Department.

The Security Service of Ukraine also searched a number of sites associated with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, citing the church’s collaboration with the Russians. Jehovah’s Witnesses have reported assaults on their members that have not been prosecuted, according to the State Department.

Mr. Carlson pressed the point, citing the alleged arrest of priests who disagreed with the government’s view. “I sincerely wonder how a Christian leader could support the rest of Christians for having different views,” he said.

When Mr. Pence repeated that he had raised the issue and received assurances that the Ukrainian government was not engaged in religious persecution, Mr. Carlson continued to argue the point.

“The problem is that you don’t accept my answer,” Mr. Pence said.


Metropolitan Epiphanius I, head of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, at the compound of the Kyiv Pechersk Lavra monastery in Kyiv, Ukraine, on April 9, 2023. (Vladyslav Musiienko/Reuters)

Religious Freedom Continued

“I just told you that I asked the religious leader in Kyiv if it was happening. You asked me if I raised the issue, and I did. I also raised it with the Ukrainians. And I was told that there are religious leaders who have been working with the Russian military that is murdering people by the thousands,” he said.

Mr. Pence added that, as president, he would not tolerate religious persecution in any nation supported by the United States.

In his view, the real threat in Europe is the aggression of Russian President Vladimir Putin, which would certainly lead to an incursion into a NATO count



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