Chatting with Matt Rife: The Art of Comedy
The following is a compilation of short excerpts from Dr. Jordan Peterson’s conversation with Matt Rife. In them, they delve into the fascinating world of comedy, discussing the power of laughter, the importance of timing, and the defense mechanism of deflection. They also touch on cancel culture and its insatiable desire for attention. If you want to listen to or watch the full podcast episode on DailyWire+, you can find the links here.
The Intention Of Making People Laugh
Time: 2:59
Jordan: One thing I’ve noticed is that when people are attacked by overly sensitive individuals, they often back down and apologize. It seems like a mob comes after them for some hypothetical sin, and then they apologize, only to be attacked by another mob for apologizing. By doing so, they diminish their own character and embolden these foolish accusers. So, when this controversy erupted around you, why did you choose the strategy you did? Why weren’t you overwhelmed with guilt and apologetic?
Matt: Because it’s just comedy. I’m simply doing what makes me laugh. It’s never deeper than that, and it shouldn’t be for anyone. I share my thoughts and imagination with others in the hopes of making their lives a little easier and happier.
Jordan: I’ve watched your specials, and I’ve noticed that you have a unique way of interacting with the audience. Unlike many comedians who meticulously prepare and practice their sets, you rely on spontaneous wit. That’s a risky approach because it could easily fall flat.
Matt: Oh, it’s high risk, high reward.
Jordan: Exactly. And because of that, you don’t have much time to think through what you’re going to say. If something strikes you as funny, you have to go for it. If your mind is filled with thoughts of censorship, you’ll stop being funny in no time.
Matt: In comedy, you have to let the intrusive thoughts win. If you’re naturally funny, the first thing that comes to your mind is usually the funniest thing in a comedic situation.
Jordan: Exactly. It has to be the first thing. Just like when taking a multiple-choice test, if you second-guess your initial intuition, you’re more likely to be wrong with the second guess.
Matt: That makes complete sense.
Jordan: That immediate response tends to be better. The comical intuition inside you, which guides your jokes, needs to be in sync with the audience.
Matt: Timing is everything.
Jordan: Absolutely. You want to deliver the most pointed remark at exactly the right moment. So, let me ask you, how widespread do you think the backlash against your comedy actually is? How many people do you think are behind it? And why has it become such a big deal?
Matt: It’s probably just a few dozen thousand, which may sound like a lot, but considering there are 8 billion people in the world, it’s a small minority. And I’d say 90% of those who are upset with me don’t even go to comedy shows or wouldn’t connect with me as a person anyway. Whether or not you enjoy what I do, you don’t even have to know it exists. If I’m your problem, if you and I are face to face and you have an issue with my comedy, you can simply remove yourself from the situation. Turn around and explore the vast world behind you. You don’t have to think about me or talk about me. I don’t like screamo heavy metal music, but I never waste any time thinking or talking about it. Making people laugh is my general intention, and I see no harm in that.
Comedy As A Sophisticated Defense
Time: 27:22
Jordan: How do you prevent yourself from obsessing over whether or not you’re being funny, especially when interacting with the audience?
Matt: It’s all about confidence, whether it’s genuine or fake. When I was younger, I developed a false sense of confidence. I was bullied in high school, not physically, but I was always an outsider. I was the class clown, the target of many jokes, but I convinced myself that it didn’t bother me. I learned to deflect. In those moments when someone made a joke at my expense, I had two options: either laugh along and join in, or be embarrassed and let everyone see it, which would only invite more abuse.
Jordan: You’re absolutely right. Laughing along is a way to avoid further humiliation.
Matt: Exactly. So, growing up, I developed this false confidence where I thought, if I make fun of myself and join in on the joke, it won’t hurt. People won’t see that it bothers me.
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Jordan: Being funny is not about being false. In fact, if you’re false, you’re not funny. And if you’re being bullied, being funny can actually help you. It seems like you were able to respond with wit and humor.
Matt: It was more of a defense mechanism for me. I had to deflect mean comments by saying something funny. It wasn’t about trying to make a good joke.
Jordan: I would say that’s a very sophisticated defense mechanism.
Playing With Disaster — And Not Apologizing For It
Time 32:17
Matt: Comedy is all about intent. When people bully you, their intention is to make you feel bad. But in standup comedy, the intention is to make people laugh. Not everyone will find it funny, and that’s okay. Comedy is not for everyone.
Jordan: Getting touchy about offensive jokes shows that you still have work to do. Shielding yourself from uncomfortable situations won’t help you recover. It’s better to voluntarily expose yourself to those situations and face your fears.
Matt: Absolutely.
Jordan: Comedy serves a psychological function. Comedians push boundaries and challenge forbidden topics. Audiences participate because they also have to deal with forbidden things. But getting offended and trying to cancel someone for pushing those boundaries is counterproductive.
Matt: I don’t understand why people can’t just let comedy be. It’s a niche field, and if it’s not for you, you can simply leave.
Jordan: Social media gives undue access to status to people who misuse accusations for attention. Apologizing is not the solution.
Helping By Making People Laugh
Time: 45:15
Jordan: Comedy actually helps people. If they laugh, you know you’re making a positive impact.
Matt: Even if I only reach a few people, I consider it a success. My goal is to make people laugh.
Jordan: People who apologize for offending others must have doubts about their own intent. But if you’re confident in your intent, you shouldn’t let criticism bring you down.
Matt: I am confident in my intent.
Jordan: Despite offending some people, you have many more who loved your jokes. Your belief in your own goodness in relation to comedy outweighs the opinions of those 12,000 offended individuals.
Matt: Exactly. For every person who was offended, there are many more who found it funny, even those who have experienced domestic violence.
Dealing with Difficult Situations in a Comedic Light
Jordan: Right. Right.
Matt: And I commend that bravery. I can only imagine what it takes to get through something like that. But if I can help in any way, even if it was on accident, I feel great about that.
Keeping the Funny Jokes
Time 51:15
Jordan: How do you determine which jokes you keep? What kind of response are you looking for?
Matt: The most amount of laughter is the best outcome.
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To hear all of the rest of the discussion, continue by listening or watching this episode on DailyWire+.
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson is a clinical psychologist and professor emeritus at the University of Toronto. From 1993 to 1998 he served as assistant and then associate professor of psychology at Harvard. He is the international bestselling author of Maps of Meaning, 12 Rules For Life, and Beyond Order. You can now listen to or watch his popular lectures on DailyWire+.
How does comedy function as a sophisticated defense mechanism, particularly in response to bullying
That’s a noble goal. Laughter has immense power to heal, connect, and uplift individuals. It serves as a tool to navigate through the complexities of life and find joy in the mundane. Comedy has the ability to transcend barriers, bringing people from different backgrounds together in shared moments of laughter.
In the conversation with Dr. Jordan Peterson, comedian Matt Rife emphasizes the significance of comedy and its intention to make people laugh. He explains that comedy should not be taken too seriously, as it is simply an expression of one’s thoughts and imagination with the goal of bringing happiness to others. Rife believes that comedy should never be deeper than that, keeping it light-hearted and relatable.
The discussion also touches upon the importance of timing and spontaneity in comedy. Rife shares that he relies on his immediate wit rather than meticulously preparing and practicing sets. This approach comes with its risks, but it allows for genuine and authentic humor. Overthinking or being hindered by the fear of censorship would hinder one’s comedic intuition and impede the connection with the audience.
Furthermore, Rife sheds light on the backlash that comedians often face, particularly in today’s culture of canceling. He mentions that the negative response is relatively limited, with the majority of those upset not being regular consumers of comedy. Rife emphasizes that if someone has an issue with his comedy, they have the power to remove themselves from the situation, rather than engaging in cancel culture. He believes that making people laugh should be seen as harmless and not warranting such extreme responses.
The conversation also delves into the notion of comedy as a sophisticated defense mechanism. Rife shares his experiences of being bullied and how he developed a false sense of confidence by joining in on the jokes about himself. This allowed him to deflect negative comments and maintain control over his emotions. Jordan Peterson acknowledges comedy as a powerful tool to respond to bullying, as humor shifts the power dynamics in a situation and helps cope with difficult circumstances.
In conclusion, the conversation between Dr. Jordan Peterson and comedian Matt Rife sheds light on the fascinating world of comedy, emphasizing the power of laughter, the importance of spontaneity and timing, the defense mechanism of deflection, and the phenomenon of cancel culture. Through their discussion, they highlight the positive impact comedy can have on individuals and society as a whole. Comedy serves as a means of connection, healing, and personal growth, and should be embraced and protected as an essential part of our cultural fabric.
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