As part of a series of 30 reposts of memes over about a half-hour period on Wednesday on Trump’s Truth Social account, the former president reposted a crude sexual joke about Vice President Kamala Harris, referencing her relationship with former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown. During an interview on CNN News Central with John Berman, Vance was questioned about the post, after criticizing Harris for not lifting “this country up” and previously calling for Trump to be banned from social media

“You were talking about Trump‘s social media, would you describe his posts over the last 48 hours as lifting people up?” Berman asked. “Quoting, reposting QAnon statements, reposting these misogynistic memes about Vice President Harris and Hillary Clinton? That‘s the kind of open discussion that you think is lifting people up?”

“Well John, I think if you look at Donald Trump‘s full campaign appearances and yes, his social media appearances, what you see is two things: a guy with an agenda to lower prices and bring back American prosperity, and a political candidate who isn‘t stodgy, who likes to have some fun and likes to tell some jokes,” Vance replied.

“I‘d much rather have a candidate who‘s willing to go off script, who‘s willing to give every interview and is willing to tell some jokes,” he continued. “I do think that‘s how you lift people up. A politics of boring scolds telling people they can‘t laugh? That is not lifting Americans up, that’s how to tear us down.”

Berman then pressed Vance about his posting of a viral meme featuring a beauty pageant contestant in 2007, Caitlin Upton, during which she gave an infamously incoherent answer during the Q&A part of the pageant. Vance captioned the video by jokingly claiming it was a clip from Harris’s interview with CNN. Upton later said the attention she received from the incident made her consider suicide.

“So when you posted this last night, were you aware that the woman you are posting a picture of had contemplated committing suicide for the attention that it received?” the CNN host asked.

“No, certainly not John, and my heart goes out to her, and I hope that she’s doing well,” Vance replied. “Look, I’ve said a lot of things on camera, I’ve said a lot of stupid things on camera. Sometimes when you’re in the public eye, you make mistakes. And again, I think the best way to deal with it is to laugh at ourselves, laugh at this stuff, and try to have some fun in politics.

“I posted a meme from 20 years ago, and I think the fact that we‘re talking about that instead of the fact that American families can‘t afford groceries or healthcare, young families can’t afford to buy a home to raise their families in, those are the real crises that we should focus on,” he continued.

The Republican vice presidential nominee then turned to a wider point about humor in politics.

“There‘s nothing that says that we can‘t tell some jokes along the way while we deal with the very serious business of bringing back our public policy,” he said. “Politics has gotten way too lame, John, way too boring. You can have some fun while making a good argument to the American people about how you‘re going to improve their lives.”

Berman then pressed him on the beauty pageant video, asking if he would like to apologize.

“John, I’m not going to apologize for posting a joke, but I wish the best for Caitlin,” Vance responded. “I hope that she’s doing well, and again, what I‘d say is one bad moment shouldn‘t define anybody, and the best way to deal with this stuff is to laugh at ourselves.”

Vance’s posting of the video wasn’t the first connection between Upton and Trump — after the 2007 pageant, she signed a contract with Trump’s modeling agency.