During an interview with the Spectator released on Friday, Trump disclosed a conversation he had with Biden at the White House last year, during which Biden allegedly revealed that he held former President Barack Obama and Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) responsible for his stunning exit from his 2024 reelection campaign and for former Vice President Kamala Harris’s subsequent loss to Trump.

“I asked him, I said, ‘So who do you blame?’ Because he was very angry,” Trump said. “And he said, ‘I blame Barack.’ … And he said, ‘And I also blame Nancy Pelosi.’”

Trump added that Biden didn’t appear to have any animosity toward former Vice President Kamala Harris, who took the former president’s place at the top of the Democratic ticket last July after Biden dropped out of the race.

“I said, ‘What about the vice president?’ He said, ‘No, I don’t blame her,’ which was interesting. Yeah. He didn’t blame her. He blamed. … He told me he blamed those two people,” Trump said during the interview.

Pelosi helped lead a Democratic pressure campaign to convince Biden to step down last July after his disastrous presidential debate with Trump a month earlier spurred deep concerns about Biden’s mental fitness. She also blamed Biden for not stepping aside sooner to let a younger nominee take his place after Harris lost the November election to Trump.

Pelosi later revealed she hadn’t spoken with Biden in months after the pressure campaign, and former first lady Jill Biden additionally hinted in an interview last month that her family’s decadeslong relationship with the former House Speaker was in a difficult spot. 

Obama also reportedly applied pressure through back channels to push Biden to drop his reelection bid last year, including by green-lighting George Clooney’s op-ed in the New York Times urging Biden to step aside. The Obamas subsequently appeared to make subtle digs at Biden during their speeches praising Harris at the 2024 Democratic National Convention.

After revealing that Obama and Pelosi were in Biden’s doghouse, Trump gave his thoughts on the infamous debate that sparked Biden’s decision to end his own reelection campaign. 

“So we go to the debate, and I walk in, and I sort of look, he wasn’t looking good. But then he had a lot of white. Very white, too white,” Trump recalled. “You know, if he did better in the debate, would he have been changed or not? If he was normal in the debate, would it have changed, or was the debate? … He blames the debate for the reason he had to get out.”

Trump touched on several other topics during his interview with the Spectator. The president indicated that he would be willing to go on Gov. Gavin Newsom’s (D-CA) new podcast, announced that he wanted to build “a beautiful, magnificent ballroom at the White House,” and said that Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau “fired” his finance minister because of a conversation he had with Trudeau.

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Trump also touted his new “gold card” proposal, which allows foreign investors to buy a $5 million path to legal citizenship and provides companies such as Apple the opportunity to hire foreign students by purchasing the card. The president wants to use the idea to help pay off the federal debt. 

“I think a big sleeper is going to be this gold card. … The budget’s almost going to be balanced. It’s not going to be that far short. It’s going to make $5 trillion,” he said. “I have people all the time begging me to help them get into the country. Some of them are very wealthy people. They’d pay that in two minutes.