Pelosi led the movement to unseat the president as the Democratic nominee after a questionable debate performance tanked Joe Biden’s popularity among voters.

“We were friends for 50 years,” Jill told the Washington Post. “It was disappointing.” The first lady previously said she couldn’t wait to invite Pelosi to the White House after COVID-19 restrictions were lifted.

Pelosi made waves when she expressed doubt about Biden’s candidacy in a July 2024 interview, even though the president had already decided to stay in the race. When that interview was recounted to her, Jill said, “I’ve been thinking a lot about relationships.”

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In her 2019 memoir, the first lady suggested she was much more apt to forgive than Joe, who struggled with stepping down until he finally made a decision to cede the nomination to Vice President Kamala Harris in 2024.

“Joe has an incredible capacity to forgive, and he’s incapable of holding a grudge,” Jill wrote in her 2019 memoir. “But that means I end up being the holder of grudges,” the one who recalls “every slight committed against the people I love.”

On the campaign trail, Trump frequently berated Biden for his age and his debate performance, frustrating the first lady. Jill called Trump “evil” and said he “wakes up every morning thinking about one person and one person only: himself.”

However, on a trip to France for the reopening ceremony of Notre Dame Cathedral, Jill and Trump had a polite, though short, interaction while sitting in the front row of the event.

“I had a good meeting with your husband in the Oval Office,” Trump said, according to Jill.

“Yes,” Jill replied, “because you’re both talkers.”

The polite interaction comes as Democrats are taking fire for being friendly with Trump despite calling him a threat to democracy on the campaign trail. Jill said she remained cordial to Trump despite their past conflict because she respects “our institutions” and doesn’t understand the point of “nastiness.”

“Joe and I respect our institutions, our traditions,” she said, “and it’s very important to me that they continue and we … What would be the point of nastiness?”

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Other Democrats, such as Sen. John Fetterman (D-PA), who met with Trump at Mar-a-Lago, have also been more cordial to Trump since his reelection. Former President Barack Obama went viral for enjoying a laugh with Trump at former President Jimmy Carter’s funeral in Washington, D.C. last week.

Jill also briefly discussed her husband’s pardon of their son, Hunter Biden, for his crimes in his felony gun and tax cases. It was highly controversial, and a reversal for Joe Biden, who said he wouldn’t pardon his son.

“Joe really wrestled with that decision,” the first lady says. “I mean, we started — he started at the point where he said he wasn’t going to pardon Hunter. But then I think things changed. Circumstances changed, and it became quite apparent and obvious that the Republicans weren’t going to stop.”

Jill was with Hunter in the Delaware courtroom when he was convicted of all three charges levied against him in his federal gun trial. Joe Biden, said then, in part: “As I also said last week, I will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as Hunter considers an appeal. Jill and I will always be there for Hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. Nothing will ever change that.”

Fox News reported that on at least six separate occasions, White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre insisted that Hunter Biden would not be pardoned. She then mirrored Biden’s reasoning for pardoning his son, saying that “enough is enough” and that Hunter was being singled out for being the president’s son.

Reflecting on her one-term tenure as first lady, Jill Biden said she was “disappointed with how it unfolded.”

“I don’t know. I learned a lot about human nature,” she said.